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Hello smile

I'm Siobhan Curran/Kisa Naumova, and this is my weblog. I tend to write about stuff like crossdressing, Macs, code, cats, wine and Second Life, but in general it's just an ongoing conversation about all sorts of stuff. If you'd like to know a little bit more about what this all is, I recommend starting on this page which has a little bit of info on who I am, and what I'm trying to do — or you could dive into my five years worth of archives if you like.

Otherwise, feel free to close this box and explore...

Tuesday, 13th July, 2004

On Passing

tagtranny rant passing

Sally love, I totally agree. But let me expand on that a little...

First of all, I'm not exactly sure what "Passing" means. Apart from the obvious "trying to masquerade as a woman", the seem to be different subtleties in its meaning depending on the context it's applied.

For example, if I take a whole bunch of photographs, you could conceivably assume I was trying to "pass" in them — I'm making myself up to look as much like a woman as possible, and posing and editing the photographs so that I appear, to all intents and purposes, to be a girl.

And then if I post them online, or use them in a chatroom, I get comments like "hey Siobhan, you pass" (or similar :wink:) Which is all fair and good. I mean the beauty of online-transvestism is that you have almost complete control over your image — you get to apply strict criteria over what version of yourself people get to see. (There's a whole other rant in here, which I'll leave for another day)

But I guess that's not what people normally mean is it? What they mean is that if (and I mean "if") I were to go out down the street, then I could quite happily walk around without worrying whether or not anyone would read me as a bloke in a dress — cos they'd all think I was a real woman.

Actually, thinking about it, can I just stick a caveat in here? I'm a transvestite, I'm not transsexual nor am I anywhere close to being transsexual. The situation for transsexual girls is totally different to mine, and I think if you applied what I'm about to say to transsexualism, then I'd get in trouble. So Don't.

Also, one of the things I've learnt as I've got older is that my idealistic militant views that I held when I was young have more holes in them than a block of Swiss cheese that's had sticks poked it it. I'm not, by nature, someone who gets a kick out of pissing people off, and I'll freely admit that I may be utterly utterly wrong about some things. I just want to open the debate a bit. I mean, if you disagree then tell me so — it's why I wrote the comment script after all :smile:

Anyway, I really think I should make two things clear. (1) I have no intention of going out to walk through the streets with the purpose of fooling everyone into thinking I'm a woman, (2) even if I wanted to, I couldn't — there are only one or two profiles of me that look remotely 'girly' (why do you think all the poses in my photos are the same? :wink:)

But is passing really what transvestites want?

Flame me if you like here, but I think that passing is (a) pretty unattainable, and (b) not the most fun part anyway.

I think I should tell a little story here, to back up what I mean:

A couple of weeks ago, me and Natalie went to Transmission in Manchester. Fab night — absolutely fab :biggrin: On the way home, we bumped into a hen-party, who, amongst other things, decided they would like to try my wig on — so there I was, in the middle of Canal Street, wigless, dressed as a girl, having the time of my life. Now, compare that with earlier in the evening, as we were walking to Canal Street: there were quite a lot of people about — straight people no less :unsure: — and I must confess, I was petrified. The difference between these two times was (OK, ignore the alcohol) my state of mind. Early on, it was about getting to the Village quickly, with the minimum fuss, whereas later on, I was so pumped with confidence that I couldn't care less what fuss there was. So I guess, in a way, early on there was a thing at the back of my head saying "Try to look like a girl so no-one will notice and you won't get into trouble — all you have to do is reach Canal Street and you'll be safe!" Whereas later on, I just didn't care — I was feeling proud and happy and I didn't care that people could tell I was a man, I felt great about myself regardless.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves here — there are so few trannies around that can pass themselves off as women to the extent that no-one notices. I certainly couldn't walk down a street in the middle of the day and not expect at least half the people I walk past to do a double take (at best — more likely they'd fall about laughing, or kick my head in). There are so many things that give us away — how tall we are, our Adam's apples, our big hands, our faces, our legs, our clothes, our height — that it's just not possible.

I know that there's a frisson of excitement about walking through a crowd of people dressed, and thinking that no-one has spotted us, or maybe that people mistake us for an attractive woman, but it doesn't happen.

I've read quite a few accounts that trannies have written about going out, and each time I see the words "no-one recognised me as a man" I always think, "bollocks — of course they did"

Now, I realise that this is probably enough to make me flame-bait for the rest of my life, but wait — there's more.

See, I kinda get a little bit annoyed when trannies go out and try and pass. I think it confirms in the public's mind that we're a bunch of sad, delusional fantasists. They see us trying (and failing) to look and behave like women, and they laugh at us. It reinforces the stereotype of us being there as a joke.

And I think that that's the thing I'm most upset about, in terms of the public image of transvestites. The automatic response from non-trannies is to find us a bit of a joke. Everywhere on television and in the media, we are presented as some kind of ridicule-object. When someone wants to get a laugh without much effort, they just stick a man in a dress and that does the trick. I even heard John Humphries on the Today Programme on Radio 4 crack a joke about it the other morning. It seems perfectly acceptable to laugh at men in women's clothing — and part of that is because of ourselves. Sometimes we just don't do ourselves any favours.

D'ya know, I've hardly ever seen anyone manage to pull off passing as the other gender without any surgery whatsoever. I mean, there are exceptions of course (casts eyes in the direction of Pennsylvania), what Kevin Aucoin did in Making Faces is amazing. But even when you have a dedicated team of make-up experts it doesn't always work — that Reversals thing on ITV with Sarah Parish made up to look like a bloke, I'm sorry, but she still looked like a woman with a stuck-on 'tache.

Angry with me yet? Thinking maybe "who the hell does she think she is ranting like this?"

Well, yeah — maybe I haven't got any right to say this. As I've said loads of times, I'm very fortunate in the way that I can express my transvestism. But I don't think that precludes me from having an opinion on things.

But I am being very down and ranty about things here aren't I? And in a way, I'm being just as preachy as those that would set out rules for passing. So allow me to be a little more upbeat...

The biggest problem I have with the concept of passing, is how it inherently indicates that what I do is wrong, and if I tried to pass then I'd be reinforcing the idea that a man wearing a dress is a Bad Thing. The whole point of passing seems, to me, to be about denying what I am — trying to appear as a woman, because the reality of being a man in a dress is too absurd for people to take seriously.

Which I think is absolute shite.

OK, so I don't think for one minute that dresses and skirts should be a part of men's everyday wardrobe (I mean, if it was, and it was common, then where would the fun of being a transvestite go?) — but equally, I don't think that I should be made to feel ashamed of what I am.

Maybe I'm being a little idealistic and romantic about this, but I feel that there's something inherently 'free-spirited' about being a trannie. We know where the boundaries lie in society, but yet we break them. We cross thresholds that others wouldn't dream of doing — whether it's cos we've got balls (ha ha, I made a joke :wink:), or because we feel an undescribable urge to do it.

Either way, I think we should be proud of what we do — and I don't think we can ever be proud of it if we spend all our time pretending that we're not what we are.

When I went to see Eddie Izzard perform in Manchester, the minute he walked out on stage someone shouted "You're fucking gorgeous!" — and he was. Not because he looked exactly like a woman, but because he was confident, unashamed, and proud of what he was wearing.

Which is how I think we should all be.

I guess there are several reasons why we're a source of humour for the public. Sometimes it's because we can look absolutely ridiculous (on the whole, women's clothes are designed for women's bodies and they look terrible on men — even women's trousers are designed differently so that they suit women), and other times it's because we scare them. There's that classic scene in Trainspotting where Begbie pulls someone in a nightclub, only to put his hand down her pants and find something there that he wasn't expecting.

And I think that's a common view of transvestites — that we try to fool men into sleeping with us. Now, despite the progress that the Gay community has made over the past 50 years, a lot of men are still horribly petrified of being gay. And they lash out at anything that questions their heterosexuality. So when they're presented with a man trying to look like a woman, their immediate reaction is to assume that this is some kind of threat to their 'manliness', and they laugh (or worse). The dishonesty of passing only gives them more fuel for their little fire.

So why give it to them? Why play into their hands? Why give the impression that we're ashamed?

For me, the whole 'looking like a woman' thing isn't the main thing about being a transvestite. If I'm totally honest, the reason I wear women's clothes is because, well, I guess it's two things: (1) I think they suit me; (2) They turn me on. I enjoy trying to take photographs where I look like a girl, and in certain contexts — where there's no doubt whether I'm a boy or a girl — I enjoy performing in a certain role. I like the transformation that I can do — perhaps in the same way that an actor does. I like looking in a mirror and seeing someone totally different there. But to do that, I need recognition that I'm not what I appear to be. I need people to know that I'm really a man — otherwise, I figure there's not really any point to it.

Would we buy I Can't Believe It's Not Butter if we didn't know it wasn't butter? Would the manufacturers feel proud of their achievement in making it taste the way it does if they couldn't share that achievement with anyone?

If I walk down the street, and no-one recognises me as a boy, then where's the fun in that apart from in my own head? I need there to be a boundary, so that I can cross it. I need people to know I'm a trannie, so that they can tell me how much of a good job (or not) I'm making of it.

I'm not saying here that I don't think any of us should go out in public dressed — that would be as bad as the tranny-police telling us how to carry ourselves in public. I just think we need to be realistic about it. I think it's got less to do with being a transvestite, and more to do with having the courage to do whatever the hell we want. I mean, I'd love to walk down my high street in a ballgown, but I haven't the balls to do it. I'd love to go to the shops in a skirt, but I'd get my head kicked in before I reached the end of my road.

So I don't *shrug*

I think it's about context — the situations we put ourselves into, and the dangers that we expose ourselves to. That little story about Transmission above — the minute I got to Canal Street, I suddenly allowed myself to relax. The context changed — I was no longer scared about being recognised as a man, I could revell in it. Now, it would be great if the whole world was like the Gay Village in Manchester. But It's Not. It's a scary place, and there are people out there who will beat us up for being the way we are.

But trying to pass isn't going to change the way the world is — The Village didn't just happen — it took years, a lot of struggle, and in some case a great deal of sacrifice for it to become the environment it is today. And even then, it's not always safe. And the rest of the world isn't going to change simply by us bleating on about how we "want to be accepted", let alone by us denying that we exist — which is exactly what we're doing when we try and pass.

I'm not waiting for the day when it's acceptable for a man to wear a dress — that's the last thing I want. I don't want people not to bat an eyelid when I wear a skirt — I want to be noticed. I'm just waiting for the day when I stop seeing people laugh at us, just because of what we are. And I don't think we're ever going to get to that day until we stop deluding ourselves into thinking we pass — and stop apologising for ourselves by trying to pass.

Let's just concentrate, as Sally said, on looking our best as men in frocks — and let the rest of the world work it out for themselves. :biggrin:

...

(This rant, "Passing? That's so Passe", is rant #1 in a series. Further titles are available, including "I'm a Lesbian Trapped in a Man's Body — What The Fuck is That All About?!" and "'But at Least I'm Not Gay' and Other Things to Say to Piss Off the One Community That Accepts Us")

err... WOW!

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Davew

Um er major rant . have to disagree there are some very convincing Tgirls http://www.geocities.com/melissalilac/MelissaLilac.html

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Kylie

Well, yes, I agree — there are some tgirls out there who look incredibly convincing: I've only chatted to her a couple of times, but Nicole Tristin has a bone structure and a face to die for.

But I think you're missing my point hon. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to look as much like women as possible. I'm saying, well, two things really. (1) The context and reasons why we do it are important. (2) We shouldn't use 'passing' as a measuring stick as to how "good" or not we are as trannies.

I mean, it's a hell of a lot of fun trying to achieve a totally 'feminine' look. I spend hours and hours messing around with make-up, hair and clothes trying to look as much like a woman as I can — and I get a real buzz when people mistake me for a real woman. But the reason I do it is for the acknowledgement that I, as a man, can transform myself into something that comes close to a woman — it's the transformation that's the important part.

But also, if the reason for trying to 'pass' is to hide the fact that we're trannies, then surely we're indicating that we're ashamed of what we are?

And I don't think we should be — I think we should be proud of being transvestites.

I guess that's really my main rant in all this — I'm sick of being represented to the general public as having something to hide. I'm sick of being a 'joke' to them. The contrast in reactions in my little story — the furtiveness of trying to get to safety, and the sheer joy of self expression later on — I think illustrate what I'm going on about. On the one hand I'm trying to look as convincing as possible, so as not to reveal my 'secret', and on the other I'm being myself.

I'm finding it hard to pin down exactly what I'm trying to say to be honest. I guess it kinda boils down to this: I think it's wrong that for a lot of us, our experiences of going out involve worrying whether or not we're going to be read. It shouldn't be about that — it should be about pride, and about being ourselves.

Maybe my tone is a bit too ranty here — I'm not trying to be nasty and preachy, I'm just trying to start a discussion.

Hmm, already the evening and another day gone down the drain? I totally know where you're coming from though, the day when we can all have the freedom to express ourselves however we wish without the worry of being judged, ridiculed or accepted does seem a long way off, and that goes for life in general and not just in a TV sort of a way.

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Mark

Well Siobhan what could I say that you haven't already so eloquently said. I almost totally agree with you. My only difference would be that I would really love to be able to pass completely, I mean actually be totally mistaken for a bio-woman. Not because I'm ashamed of being a trannie but because I'd love to be that pretty and femme.But it's not the most important thing and I agree wholeheartedly with everything else that you say. I really want your viewpoint to become our 'raison d'etre', let's all be proud (or learn to become proud) of who and what we are. We are special in so many ways but that will not take away feelings of guilt and shame. Let's drop the guilt and shame and replace it with pride in ourselves. Pride in our achievements and the satisfaction of really knowing who we are (or in my case who we might be ... LOL). I just feel so happy when I'm out a'trannying that I can't imagine how it could possibly be a 'bad' thing to be so happy — but I'll admit I have a long way to go to accepting myself still. So I cast my vote for Princess Siobhan to be Princessy President for Life ...... so there!!!

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Sally UK

Siobhan... I couldn't agree more! Here's part of an e-mail I wrote recently that touched on this issue.... "Siobhan and I have occasionally talked about ‘crossing the boundary’, when we go out, it’s what we do, both for ourselves and others. This brings up the issue of passing which I don’t want to go into too much at the moment except to say we’ve thought long and hard and come to the conclusion that ‘passing’ is really a way of setting yourself up to fail, and the success or otherwise of an evening out can hang on the raised eyebrow of a stranger’s glance.

Life ’s too short! :smile: Crossing the Boundary is more fun. The act of going out in public dressed crosses a boundary many people wouldn’t risk, including most transvestites. When being an out-there-and-swishing transvestite we remove ourselves and those we meet from the ordinary and the everyday. At it’s best, and a good example was the Hen Party Siobhan and I enthralled the last time we were wandering through the Village, people respond well to this sense of being taken out of themselves. It’s like wandering though a familiar place and meeting some fabulous and mythological creature. At it’s worst, those who respond badly are having exactly the same experience! Between you and me, I’d rather have the experience of being a ‘fabulous and mythological creature’ than the thin pleasures of thinking, “Hee, hee, nobody knows!” but it’s a matter of personal taste :smile:"

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Natalie

what time does this train get to interlaken?

I'm back....did you miss me?

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ET

Siobhan, wonderful rant. I get tired of being told that all I have to do is "dress down" and I can pass...as thought passing is the goal. I dont go to some places many T-girls want, or seem to want, to go to. I dont go to the market dressed, nor to family restaurants.

Is this because I am afraid...well maybe in part..but there is another reason.

One of the reasons I dress, somewhat like yourself, is to go out, have fun, and BE NOTICED....be noticed as a man in a dress. Now, I happen to be gay in additiion to being a crossdressing so yes, I like the attention of men. Well in "mainstream" locations there are two things that get in the way. 1. if I "pass" I am a middle aged woman...nothing wrong with that..except that I want to be seen as sexy and provocative....not matronly. If I "dress down" so that I "pass"...what percentage is there that I will be so seen. 2. If I manage to fool the guys into thinking I am really a woman, and something comes of it. well, enought said.

For the above reasons I perfer T-friendly and/or gay places where I can relaz, be myself, be as "alluring" as I can be and attract those that are interested in me, etc. Quite frankly in addition to the admitted bit of fear, there is the fact that when I try to "pass" and go amongst the "family types"..I am actually bored out of my mind. So why do it...

Thanks Siobhan for giving us this forum.

Vickie

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Vickie Collins

couple of points (mostly in agreement):

1) kylies reply mentions my friend melissa-lilac. I have no idea if kylie or yourself have meet melissa.

Melissa is simply stunning she does actually pass, but there are reasons why shes passes. She is not TS, but she has been described a 'driven' tranny. melissa is 'out' at least 3 nights week!

She should give girl lessons to most of my female friends. But htens she is only acting out what she likes about being a girl/TV.

The world would be a sad place without her!

2) For me its about pushing those bounderies or limits you have mentioned. Id like to find out where the limits are to being a trannie... I am not trying to pass (or i dont think i am), but i do try to look female.

Again, whats the point in doing it if u are not noticed for being a guy in a dress?

So far I havent really come ascross any limits, unless you included places I would not go even in boy mode!

I guess the most outragous thing ive done so far is to get on an airplane to amsterdam fully dressed up! and then to fly back, including going through passport control!

After doing that I have the problem of what do i do next? Hopefully i shall find answer, but its been over a year now, so its looking unlikely...

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nicki may

i am a crossdresser and try to pass but get read everytime. I wont stop going out fully dressed though. Wearing a skirt and the full attire is great and i love make-up too.

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samantha

So many different takes on such a fascinating subject! So, to recap: a lot of us have similar (but slightly different) thoughts on passing and transforming and whatever position we adopt we care deeply about it. With so many complexities, contexts, motivations and analyses to navigate, it's hardly a wonder we haven't got ourselves together to challenge the dumb jesters any better, is it? Being gay is so much simpler (ideologically) than being a tranny: being a man who likes to sleep with men doesn't require any particular relation with heterosexualism (until heterosexualism comes up and kicks your ass on a night out...) whereas being a tranny, from what Siobhan and so many others have said (and I agree) both requires and exploits socialised expectations of gender-defined behaviour. Are we using, abusing, undermining or reinforcing? Quite clearly, it's just not clear!!

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Jools